Madeira Jons training - Print Topic

When I started training in earnest on November I went to the gym every day for an hours session; no days of rest. I was advised by the more experienced members of this forum to take at least 1 days rest a week so commenced to do so.  Certainly I found that beneficial. However last week I took Friday off and since we have visitors at home on Sunday I took that day off also.
Well!, On the Saturdays gym session I went like a train.  I've never felt so energetic since I first started. Two cycles of 30 minutes cardio, bicep curls, chest presses. I exceeded my previous bests. The same occurred on Monday (today) after resting Sunday. This time 2 cycles of 30 minutes cardio, biceps curls and leg presses, and wide grip rowing.
Totals  using the pyramid technique on all 3 exercises of each cycle were :-
wide grip row 5 sets, 36 reps with a max weight of 80 kgs totaling 2,275kgs
biceps = 10 sets and 89 reps with a max weight of 25kgs total of 1,710kgs
Leg presses 6 sets and 250 reps pushing a max of 175 kgs. total of 42,249kgs

This was better than Ive ever done since I started. Todays session lasted 2 hours and I could have gone on.
Now the interesting question..... as I seem to excel after one days rest, do I then continue to have one day at the gym and then a days rest. OR do I go back to one day off a week?
Your views are most welcome.

4-5 Days training and 2 rest days see's the best results

I think you sufferd with a few mistakes and after some rest which you clearly needed you saw what happens when you take those rest days up.

Could you list what exercises your acutally doing in those?

For example my chest exerices is

Incline dumbell press x2
Incline bar or smith x2
Flat bar or smith x3
Flat flys x3

Hi Tank, I certainly made mistakes and I'm sure I;ll make more as I go along but as you know, I'm happy to seek and act on advice.
Regards the chest exerices, I use a machine very much like this one.

we dont have any free standing barbells.

leg press is

and for the biceps I use the preacher. The "wide grip row" is similar to the "chest press" machine but instead of pushing the handles you pull them.

Hmm.. you mentioned your gym is quite far away? is there no better gym's closer? any chance you could take a few sly shots of inside the gym ? see what choices you got.

Machines are alright.. always best to do most exerices with dumbells.

Also remember when on weights..for preacher for example..its not about lifting heavy,its about lifting 10-15 reps while squezing the muscle at the top for 1 second rather then straight up/down lift movments if that makes sense. gives the muscle alot more burn

Fine Tank, yes that make a lot of sense. And I'll take fotos when I go tomorrow. No Problems there. Actually my gym is ony about half a mile away. The next one is about 30!

Ouch so deff stick to the close gym then lol :o
Ill take a look at the machines when you post them. I think if you changed a few things like not always going to failure you will have alot more energy. i never acutally train to failure my self. only in abs,, deff burn out if i did!

looks a good gym(thumbsup)

ahh love the cardio section! love a tv to watch while on cardio for wayyyyyy to long.

Looks all nice and new stuff. nice.

how do u feel after u been having 2 days rest now instead of all on?

Tank, been 3 days WOs now and have been performing WAY above my previous best. I find that 50 minutes cardio throughout the session is easy; before I was gasping at 20. You guys were right to stop me doing 7 days non-stop! Also as advised I now do different muscle groups on alternate days so they get at least 24 hours rest. Got a great diet regime from PJ, as you might have guessed. Still got a lot of fat to get rid of though! :) :)

Thursday.  Took today as a rest day.  Legs were knackered after 250 leg presses at 175kgs amongst other exercises.
The rest did me good as can be seen from the cardio results taken from the gym computer
                                                                                   Time            calories
5/3/2008                                                                   0:50:40    310
4/3/2008 Life Fitness 93T Series Treadmill 0:54:36 329
3/3/2008 Life Fitness 93T Series Treadmill 0:50:02 319
1/3/2008 Life Fitness 93T Series Treadmill 0:50:07 305
                                                  TOTALS           3:25:26     1,263 calories

I've got to get that remaining fat off!

i have often wondered how these machines work out how many calories you have used by just putting your bodyweight and age etc into them!!! ie fat sally 17 stone vs me 17st i would obviously burn more calories having more muscle on me

erm lady instructor aint bad jon, see why your there everyday now....! ;D

I train mon / tues / thurs / fri........
I rest Sat / Sun / Wed

Your body develops during the rest period, so to gain the most frm your training you shouldn't train a muscle group until it as completely recovered from the previous training session. Thats why people usually only train lets say chest once a week because if you "tear" the muscle properly it will take the next 6 days to rebuild and be ready for the next session....
If your doing light cardio you can train pretty regulary, but if your running hard, sprinting etc or doing interval on the rowing machine or bike then again you will need several days of rest before repeating.....

Quite a few people make the mistake of over training, you should feel whens good to go again, but if in doubt have days rest again, it will be more beneficial or you........

Thanks Andy, I've realised that the extensive training I was doing before, such as 7 days on the trott was mostly wasted. I'm taking 2 days off now, Thuresday and Sunday and selecting groups of muscles to train on separate days. I find that I can do more hours training over the 5 days now that I have rests than I did over the seven [previously.

Kez, I know that the calory count is only an estimate, but its an encouragement as well.

Ive been reading up on fat loss and found this of interest.

Quoted Text

Performing lighter weight with more repetitions (15-20 reps, 20-30 reps, or 20-50 reps) does not burn more fat or tone (simultaneous decrease of fat and increase muscle) better than a heaver weight with moderate repetitions (8-12 reps). Weight training utilizes carbohydrates after the initial ATP and CP stores have been exhausted after the first few seconds of intense muscular contraction. Typically a set's duration is 20 to 30 seconds. For the average fit person, it requires 20 to 30 minutes of continuous aerobic activity with large muscle groups (e.g. Gluteus Maximus and Quadriceps) to burn even 50% fat; fat requires oxygen to burn. Performing a few extra repetitions on a weight training exercise is not significant enough to burn extra fat and may in effect burn less fat.

Basically it states that increased reps is not going to do anything but increasing weight for the same reps will.

Hi Jon,

Ive popped over to hijack your thread.... lol.............(dance)

Only kidding looks like things are going well. Just thought i would say hi. (woot)(woot)

Jo, you know you're always welcome. I'm off to the gym to work on thighs, calves and back. I dont expect to be able to walk later.

Damaged the hamstring again, but this time it hurt more, so I assume more damage as I've mentioned in INJURIES thread. Will now concentrate on arms , chest and back until the hamstring gets better in a few weeks this time! Using the "preacher" I spent only about 10 minutes doing bicep curls, then had the hamstring problem when I started cardio. So not much done today!
Set   Reps  weight    Total using Pyramid technique
1      12     10       120
2      10     15       150
3        7 20     140
4        4     25       100
5        3     30         90
6        3    25          75

I really want to get onto 40kgs soon

Taking 2 days off until Friday in order to rest the hamstring. Then I think that leg exercises will be out of the question for at least 4 weeks. I#m not even trying to walk fast, just limping along! :)

Just seems to me that we are all preoccupied with MORE IS BETTER, its not. You grow when you rest. Max four days a week on the weights, I do three off season, four pre contest. I do each body part once a week. Its about the
intensity you generate whilst training not how long you are in the gym for. Analogy. Look at a sprinters physique,
powerful, strong, how far does he run? 100 mtr. Look at the marathon runners physique, slight at best, but he goes
on for miles. So, train short, sharp, hard and intense to build muscle. Train for hours on end with less impact and stay small.

Just my take chaps.

Reaper

Hi Reaper, when I first started I didn't visit any BB sites and with no advice to guide me, I was in the gym 7 days a week. Now I've really cut that down and have been resting for 2 out of the 7. The guys on this forum told me I was over-training so I took their advice. As you so rightly said below

Quoted Text

train short, sharp, hard and intense to build muscle

Resting again today and the hamstring, is still ever so slightly "naggy" but nowhere as bad as before. I've cut the carbs down to stop putting on weight as Ive had to drop cardio for the duration.

Replace the carb' calories you are cutting with protein. You don't need the carbs as much, so you have done the
right thing, but additional protein could assist your muscular damage repair more quickly. Just ensure you use good
quality protein.

Reaper.

Thanks Reaper. I was just going to reduce the carbs, but wont the extra protein just convert into fat if not used?

Not in my experience, no. You are still training, you are still active, albeit not using cardio, but active non the less
and you will be training other body parts as usual. The extra protein will help heal damage. Use the mirror as your yardstick, if you see yourself getting fat then you are! At that point you would need to re evaluate your diet.

Reaper.

It is near on impossible that your body would store protein as fat - dont worry about that - Reaper has given some good advice, give it a try :-)

PJ

Interesting WO, especially bearing in mind the comments from PJ and Reaper about increasing protein as I've reduced the carbs. Today although I've had 2 full days rest and in any case my last WO was terminated early due to the hamstring injury so thats really 2 and a half days,  today I felt I had no energy! As recommended by PJ and Reaper Im gonna have to increase the protein! The hamstring is just nagging now and causes me to limp a little; WO consisted of arms, chest and back exercises such as:-
                                                  Visits       Reps       Sets    Av weight kgs          Total
Bicep Curl Arm Curl       (preacher)      1       107           11        18                     1,949
Chest Press Wide Grip Press               1        64             7        31                     2,044
Row Machine Wide Grip Row                1        45             7        67                     3,000
Bicep Curls  (dumbell)                        1      200            2         10                     2,000
TOTALS                                            4      416           27          31                    8,993

All exercises were undertaken using the pyramid technique apart from the dumbell which was 25 reps then change hands.    Total time for complete WO was 1 hour. Funny how I feel cheated as I cant do cardio yet!

Saturdays WO, no cardio again because of hamstring. Stayed for 1 hour doing "chest press" "tri's" and using the preacher again for bicep curls. Got to 25 kilos (55 pounds) with 3reps using pyramid technique but couldn't carry on as these muscles on both arms really started to ache. Particularly number 4, the purple one.

Earlier I managed 20 reps at 20 kilos (44 pounds). This would have been impossible 2 weeks ago so I'm rather pleased with that progress. Still pi$$ed of at my stupidity in not resting that hamstring injury before. Without cardio I feel I'm not using my WO to its full!
Tomorrow another rest day.

Again dont be so hard on yourself with the hamstring, just make sure that this time you give it plenty
of rest and time to recover. And when you go back take it easy to start with and dont go mad. :)

Thanks Jo. I was damn idiotic before wasn't I!
I think you're gonna have bigger biceps than me at the rate you're going! :) :)
I've PMed you.

Thanx, hopefully will have some new pics to post soon.

You werent stupid, but you will learn like we all do at times that these things take time and you cant
rush them. ;)

Well, it seems that my new routine of one day at gym and the next day resting works! Felt really ready to do some hard training today.  I was able to do light cardio, slow walking on treadmill, to stretch the hamstring a little, and stayed on a little longer than I wanted; there were 2 lovely young ladies with bobbing pony tails and tight clothes exercising on the cross-trainers in front of my treadmill.
Now come on guys, don't knock an ol',  mans dreams!  :) :)
Stayed at the gym for 2 hours, biceps curls, chest presses and leg extensions and Row Machine Wide Grip Row, plus of course the light cardio.  I used to do the cardio first in order to warm up but have taken advice from the forum and now do it halfway through the WO.
Chest presses and biceps done to failure. That is the arms and chest muscles couldn't do another rep.
BTW anyone else have sore forearms when reaching the limit on bicep curls on the "preacher"?

Nice one seems like things are coming along nicely. Glad to hear you are taking things easy with the
hamstring this time :)

as for the two young ladies and the bobbing hair.... what are you like !!! ;)

Actually the hamstring injury did me a favour! As I have been resting alternate days I find that I am able to do much better and longer WOs when I do go to the gym. So, it gym one day, rest the next.
Hamstring exercises now up to 5kph over 30 minutes using the treadmill.
I have put on some weight due to the slowing down of the cardio, so have cut down on the carbs.
There is still a layer of fat which refuses to move which is a pity as my muscles under it are now hard and would show up better without that layer. Trying to get a better body for my 70th!

This was me in my prime!
Gurkha Rifles. Ahhhhhhh.... the memories, memories.... :) :)

4pm Friday
The reduction in carbs is beginning to have an effect on WOs. Today I had little energy and finished early. Did a BIG mistake:- I did thigh extensions before cardio and found I could hardly walk after them. So no cardio!
Ah well, some days you in etc etc etc...... ::) ::) ::)

are you carbs cycling jon?? and why are you doing cardio half way through your workout??, i would read the thread but i'm too lazy ;D

Hi Kez, I used to do cardio first thing in the WO to get warmed up, but following advice from guys on the forum I changed cardio to halfway through. To be honest I prefer doing it first.

As far as carbs reduction, I've just reduced them for each meal because.
1. Due to hamstring injury (now mending) my cardio was reduced to just a warm walk instead of power walking.
and
2. I'm trying to reduce the amount of fat still on my body.

if you dont do cardio first thing in the morning do it straight after your workout........ doing cardio halfway though your workout? whats the point in that?

Kez, I am following djandy1uk's advise on this! :) :)
This is what he wrote in a thread to me.

doing cardio after your weights session is far more effective.... During your weights session you use up your glycogen and are at your strongest, so firstly you get the most out of your weights session. By doing your cardio after it will get straight into pure fat burning...and you should benefit far more fom it this way around..... It is a bit of a stinger running after a weights session, but just stick with it and I think it will speed up your progress...
:) :)

To be honest I find doing cardio first to be a lot easier as I said before.

cardio first thing in the morning before breakfast is the best time to burn fat, but doing it after your weights session is also good , i thought you were stopping halfway through your workout to do your cardio L OL!! ... keep going jon as i'm sure you will get there in the end, nothing good comes easy in life!!!

Following Fridays pretty disastrous day when I had no energy, I had Saturday off and went to gym today Sunday. Felt absolutley full of energy and in addition to 58 minutes cardio, I pressed, pulled and lifted this lot for the total below; on biceps curls, chest press and wide row pulls (upper back).
Kilos (Total)            Stations       Sets        Reps
77,410                  6                 28       860
77.410 kilos is 170,302 pounds
Half the kilos were done on the leg/calf extension press which I now find easy, now that the hamstring seem OK. I didn't trash the hamstring, just upped the speed on the treadmill gradually from 4.5 to 5.6 kph.

All the strength exercises were used with the "pyramid" technique. Bicep cirls were 210 reps with maximum weight of 25 kilos (55 pounds) . I tried 30 kilos (66 pounds) which is the next step up on our preacher, but couldn't manage that yet.
Tomorrow, Monday,  another rest day.

This is a breakdown of my training for March

How is your body looking now Jon, has it changed a lot??

Kez, I'm gonna put a foto on the forum on April 17th! But yes, its changed, but not a lot. By that date I will have been doing WOs for 5 months, I started Nov 15th. Still got that damn layer of fat though! :) Muscles are much harder. My aim is to have a body like yours by the time I'm 99! :) :)

;D, keep going Jon your putting some good effort in!!

Thanks Kez. I really appreciate the support we each get from the successful forum members like yourself.

Quoted Text

Jon your putting some good effort in!!

On the training or graphics ???? ;D

well the graphics are pretty impressive as i would have no idea how to do them, but he is working bloody hard to get where he wants and on that alone desesrves an A+ for effort, i hope when i am Jons age i still have the enthusiasm and drive to carry on

The hamstring is improving and following advice form the forum, I've been taking it easy this time. TodayI managed 76 minutes cardio at a maximum speed of 5.6 kph. Yesterday should have been a day off, but I couldn't resist some light training, but tomorrow, Friday, is definitely a day off.
So far this months I've managed:-
                      Total weights kilos    Stations      Sets       Reps      Cardio mins
3/4/2008    46,715                   7            28        699              76
2/4/2008         24,970                 7          18      499           43
1/4/2008 65,490                  7        26        814         44
WOs covered biceps, chest, deltoids, triceps, calfs and thighs.
LOL, I managed 20 reps at 25 kilos on the thigh extensions and couldn't walk after that! Cardio is always after the WOs and the diet is clean following PJs suggestions.
Now taking in about 4 litres of water (flavoured un-sweetened) but still having to pee about 5 - 6 times during the night!

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but he is working bloody hard to get where he wants and on that alone desesrves an A+

agreed

John do i have this right ???, 03/04 you completed 28 sets with a total rep count of 699

Total reps/ Total sets = reps per set

699/28= 24.96

You do 24 reps per set ????

I must admit im not one for all these fancy machines - all i need is some heavy dumbells and barbells - but at 70years old you CANT knock Jon - keep it up pal (thumbsup)(c00 d00d)

Quoted Text

699/28= 24.96

ROMPER.
Yep thats the way the maths worked out. the central computer will not multiply to an exact ZERO because they cannot divided zero, it wil come to infinity, have a look at the list for my biceps curls for April 3.,and you will see:-  the bottom line is the total
sets  reps   weight   total
1    20   10.00    199.98
2 10 15.00 149.99
3 10 20.00    199.98
4 12 20.00 239.98
5 4 25.00    99.99
6 10 20.00 199.98
7 10 20.00 199.98
8 7 25.00 174.98
9 15 25.00 374.96
10 5 25.00 124.99
103 20.50 1,964.81

10 sets of bicep curls?? Whats that all about. I do about 5 sets max in TOTAL for my biceps!

thats why jon is the top bodybuilder on this site ;) lol only messin pj...we all know your the main geezer :P

Quoted Text

10 sets of bicep curls?? Whats that all about. I do about 5 sets max in TOTAL for my biceps!

PJ., I've got a lot of time to make up! :)
Also that's the total for the whole WO of 2 circuits. I do 5 sets each circuit.
So it would be 5 sets of biceps for the first. You can see that I use the pyramid to start and then the final set I go on to "failure".
Depending on which day it is, each circuit consists of, biceps, legs and calfs, chest presses. Then after 2 circuits I end the WO with cardio.
I guess its the result of Army training where doing circuits was normal.

you maybe over training a little jon, cut down on your sets with the weights but still do plenty of cardio.......... each weight set has to be proper strict though and no girl private footing around ;D

OK Kez, advice accepted and thanks again.
BTW, I now take 3 days rest each week; when I first came onto the forum I was doing 7 days WOs!

John what are your goals for weight training ???

Quoted Text

PJ., I've got a lot of time to make up!

That may be true but you cannot rush certain things. At the moment you are training more for endurance and like a marathon runner will have smaller more efficient muscles. If thats not the aim then you need to rethink.

Just my personal opinion

Hi john hows things havnt ben on much, you havnt had much look with your injuries have you.
Good to see you havnt given up, Do you take any Cod liver oils etc. Reason i ask i noticed when taking this supplement i never got
joint pains or muscle cramps. Just wondered if you had the same experiance. Ps i thought you came into my shop today at work, a guy who looked the spitting double of you came into the shop, i felt a right buerk when i asked if it was john of the net the poor guy
gave me a puzzled look. Lol. Hows ya training going???

i havent seen jon on in ages....and why does it seem that you cannot get on to his profile now has he deleted it?

I belive he has left after a dispute with another member off here.

Well if thats the case there is no point in using forums - your gonna get that wherever you go! You just gotta rise above it!

Thats a shame i hope he comes and looks on the board some time and starts to post again it would be good for us all to see his progress again.
Its going to happen at some point that some 1 upsets another but just keep thinking of the good advice and the other folk that can inspire your training and the insparation Jon can give to others.Hope all is well with you.

You wake up every day knowing that even if you dont mean to..you will piss some one off.. way i see it.

And with forums its 100x that.. things can be mistaken and also its a formula for little arguments.. im on various forums from bb'ing to local news to gaming.. and each site you will have arguments..it happens..

Im sure ive annoyed some one here and i know ill get annoyed at things too..

So anyway..end of story .. lets not drag this on :)

OK, I've been off creatine for the past 3 weeks and struggled to keep the same pace of WOs as when I was on it. My strength seems to have been halved! Especially when doing the cardio which used to last berween 30 - 40 minutes at the end of the WO but I've barely managed 15. So back on creatine + beta analine; which has been suggested as being a good stack. The BA makes my face tingle or rather burn after about 10 minutes and this lasts about an hour. I've been told this is to be expected. I've just started taking it today and my WO seemed to pick up a bit. Also considering getting some Anavar. Researched the subject and got supps to assist it, e.g. Saw Palmetto, milk thistle etc. For a male, 40 milli grams taken at 10, 10, 10, and 10 per day seems to be sufficient. I intend to take it for 28 days to see the effects. The only worry I have is the possible effect it has on the prostate as mine is slightly enlarged due to age. So if my peeing starts slowing down even further then I'm off it. I won't start the cycle until 24th May when the creatine + beta alanine has really taken hold.

I have to be honest as my diet went to pot as during the nice warm weather we had last week I spent it in the Lakes! But I'm back to a sensible eating regime. :)

Day 2 of the "creatine + beta-analine" regime and I think its working. Certainly I find that taking it immediately before WO and then also immediately after as I have been advised, seems to be working. Cardio was much easier today as were the weights. Its gonna take me some time to get used to that tingling feeling though! I checked my blood pressure but its perfectly normal. I have a naturally slow pulse of 60. When I last went for a medical this startled the doctor who took it several times before he believed me :) :)

I still don't like that beta-analine amino I take as it make my face tingle, but will stick with the cretaine+beta-A combination as it does seem to assist with my WO. Certainly when I wsn't taking it my strength and stamina dropped.
I have increased my cardio to try and cut some fat before I start the anavar cycle. BUT today that damn hamstring started to ache so I immediately stopped. I intended to do 45 minutes power walking in the treadmill and actually got to 43 when the ache started!
So its nack to the ice-packs again (Tank did you get any for you dead leg?) I always keep 2 in the fridge now! :)
Don't know if I mentioned it but I've also ordered some Finsitride from India to cover possible prostate problems along with saw palmetto which I already have. I've cut WOs to 4 days now, I train to failure, and cover no more than 2 muscle groups per session.

:Last week diet went all to Hell as I was out in the Lakes in the sun. (I've got a convertible car and did a bit of geriatric posing!) but diet back to something PJ and Kez will approve.;-)

Just back to training after a fairly disastrous 4 weeks; what with 'flu, damaged knee etc etc. 45 minutes in gym almost killed me (well not quite) The knee wont allow me to do treadmills so it onto the cycles. Managed 15 minutes before almost falling off! Now I've started again I've go to keep it going. I've got 7 pounds to lose. Reference the knee, the physiotherapist doesn't seem to be doing any good so maybe it gonna be keyhole surgery to sort out the ligaments.

4th week of physio and at last the massaging and pummeling seem to be doing some good. Still got a sore knee and not using the treadmill but managed 20 minutes continuous on he cycle.
A warning to all new bbers. Get warmed up before training. The phsyio said that the knee ligaments have tightened up most probably because I didnt stretch them properly before doing powerwalking on the treadmill. Once they cause problems then there is a knock on effect up the thigh tendons and into the small of the back. The back is where the massaging is taking place, and the knee is feeling better. Weight now 10 pounds over 15 stones; this has GOT to come off before I go back to Madeira for the winter!!!! :)

i sympathise with the knees jon, i have had years of knee problems :'(

Yes Kez, knee problems bugger up the cardio!

Physio is doing my knee good.. Im on to treadmill for 10 minutes and cycles for 30 minutes following her suggestion. Anyway she told me that she has another patient who does bbing. Seems this is a young guy, 18 - 19, and he is in because of a bicep problem. He admitted to her that he takes steroids (test). However he has been overdoing the lifting bit; trying to lift more than his body can take. The result is that his bicep has torn a splinter of bone away from where it connects to the bone. The bicep is OK but the bone isn't! ::) H'es gonna be in plaster now for some time as the physio says this damage is worse than a simply break which is normally across the bone whereas this is down it.
I'd never thought of that sort of injury before. :-/

Been doing some serious work on the triceps when the cardio was off the timetable and notice that I'll probably need another foto as they are bigger than previous! :) Getting back to cardio again thank God and weight is dropping. Want to get back to 15 stones before I start another cycle.

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